I had the opportunity to interview a brilliant real estate professional from Southern California, Jorge DeLeon of Coldwell Banker Residential Brokerage.
Jorge currently manages Coldwell Banker’s offices within the Ventura and Oxnard, California markets as well as serving as NRT’s Regional Diversity Chairman for Southern California and Arizona.
I first met Jorge through our work together with the National Association of Hispanic Real Estate Professionals and I’ve come to really respect him as a real estate professional.
During our conversation, Jorge and I discussed:
- How to best serve the Latinx community
- The importance of treating people as individuals
- Lending Practices and dealing with Language Barriers
- The National Association of Hispanic Real Estate Professionals
- What It Takes to Make It in the Real Estate Business
- And a continuing demographic trend to keep your eye on in 2020
Thanks for listening and before we get started, I’d like to ask you for a favor. If you like what we’re doing on How They Won, please take a moment to leave a review and share with your friends. I sincerely appreciate your support! Now, let’s get on with the show!
Topics and Timing
- 0:00 – Introduction
- 0:45 – A Word About Leader’s Edge Coaching
- 2:17 – Start of Interview
- 6:12 – Serving the Latinx Community
- 9:07 – It’s About the Individual
- 13:32 – Lending Practices and Language Barriers
- 19:05 – The National Association of Hispanic Real Estate Professionals (NAHREP)
- 22:33 – Pivoting to Management
- 29:01 – What It Takes to Make It in the Real Estate Business
- 33:24 – Demographic Trends in 2020
Start of Interview
Bob Burns: 17th century philosopher Baltasar Gracián said, “Self-reflection is the school of wisdom.” Often the answers we seek are staring right back at us if we simply look in the mirror. The only thing is, we need to have an accurate mirror.
One of my long-term goals has been to help our industry better reflect those we serve. If the realtor population better reflects the home buyer and home seller population, and the real estate management better reflects the realtor population, I believe our industry, and our profession, will grow and thrive.
According to the National Association of Hispanic Real Estate Professionals, Hispanic Americans have accounted for 62.7% of net US homeownership gains over the last ten years. Looking forward, Harvard’s Joint Center for Housing Studies predicts 4.6 million new Hispanic household formations from 2015 through 2025.
Today’s guest is someone who I believe will bring an important perspective to these demographic trends, and frankly, opportunities. In addition to that, he is someone I really respect and admire. He’s the Regional Branch Manager for Coldwell Banker’s offices within Ventura and Oxnard, California markets. In addition to that, he’s NRT’s Regional Diversity Chairman for Southern California and Arizona, he’s on the Board of Directors for the Ventura County Coastal Association of Realtors, in fact the current President of the Ventura County Coastal Association, he’s past Chair of Ventura County’s YPN chapter, a past President of the National Association of Hispanic Real Estate Professionals chapter in his area, and is super involved in the industry overall. But even with all those amazing accomplishments, today’s guest says his greatest achievement is raising his family of six.
Jorge DeLeon with Coldwell Banker Residential Brokerage in Southern California, welcome to the show. I’m really, really glad you’re here.
Jorge DeLeon: Thank you Bob. I’m happy to be here and thank you for the invitation.
Bob Burns: Absolutely. So let’s dive in. I found something interesting when we were discussing before the show, you told me that you recently bought an RV. We’ve been thinking about getting an RV, too. Do you have any trip advice or recommendations?
Jorge DeLeon: Well I went new, only because I hate the smell of an old motor home, and I did some research on that as to what causes that stuff, so I’ve taken some steps to avoid that happening to my motor home. That would be my first tip, is consider getting a new one if you can afford it. The difference between a new and used one is you know, just like a regular vehicle, you save about 50%, but I think that the reliability, the warranties that come with a new one are really worth it.
My wife and I have this dream…more my wife than I, because I saw a Motorhome and I thought, oh my god I’m going to spend my weekends and my free time doing all these repairs, and it has been the case, but I’m okay with it. But traveling for us with four kids has been fun, and I’ve had to learn how to take my time. Actually my seven-year-old daughter – we have two boys and two girls – my daughter said, “You know dad I really wish that we could actually spend time where we stop on our way to other places.” So we went to we went to Idaho to visit some friends. And Boise, Idaho from our house is about 18 hours, and I did it and I only stopped once for sleep. So my daughter is like, “You know, Dad, I really would like it if you would just like slow down and let us enjoy the trip getting there,” so that’s another tip is enjoy the getting there.
Bob Burns: So it’s about the journey.
Jorge DeLeon: Yes.
Bob Burns: Just like our careers, it’s about the journey, not the destination.
Jorge DeLeon: Yes.
Serving the Latinx Community
Bob Burns: All right let’s flip over to the business side. As I alluded to earlier in the conversation Latinxs will make up the majority of new household formations over the next decade, and as one of the few Latino managers of a medium to large-sized brokerage company, Jorge what do you think we need to do as an industry to best serve this growing demographic?
Jorge DeLeon: So I think it’s a multi-pronged answer to your question. First of all, the Latino community is not just one culture, so you can’t do a one-size-fits-all. With the Latino community you have first-time homebuyers, people that are move-up buyers, and then we also have some very affluent individuals, affluent families.
Fortunately for our culture, just because you speak Spanish, there’s a lot of different aspects to being Latino, so if I were to approach somebody from let’s say from South America, their education level is much superior to those that may have come from other countries in South America or Latin American countries. So if you talk to somebody from Argentina for example, they understand the home-buying process at a much higher level than somebody that was coming from a rural area in Mexico for example.
So that’s the first thing is that as managers we have to figure out how do we bring in real estate professionals and understand the different levels of Latino community even in their area. I’m actually in Montecito right now, Santa Barbara area, and the Latinos that compose the Montecito community are much different than those that compose the Latino community in the Oxnard, Ventura County and even in Thousand Oaks, because we have people from El Salvador, we have people from Costa Rica, we have people from Mexico, with people from Mexico being pretty much the majority.
The other thing is as far as the communication with them, you have to learn how to communicate with all of them, and that’s something that really bothers me when somebody wants to do a Google Translate to communicate with Latinos. You have to understand the cultural nuances when you communicate with them. How do you refer to a bedroom, for example, in one country versus a bedroom in a different Spanish-speaking country? And then also understanding what motivates someone to become a homeowner. So somebody just wants a shelter, maybe their goal is to move back to their farm, you know to their original country, so their decision-making process is going to be different than one that says I’m staying here and I’m not going anywhere, so I don’t know if that answers…
It’s About the Individual
Bob Burns: Well I think you touched on a couple of important points. The most important thing I heard is it’s about the individual. We’ve got to get down in the weeds and we can’t paint with a broad brush and make all kinds of assumptions that just because a client is Latino they’ll come to us with a certain set of expectations or even the same language. It’s Spanish, but there’s different dialects of Spanish and different let’s say assumptions or meanings to words depending on the country that they’re from. Would you say that’s on target?
Jorge DeLeon: Yes it is. And a different layer to that is you know the financing options as well. You know some people are dealing with cash, and some people make the assumption that the only way that you can get into a home is by having a hundred percent of the purchase price cash and ready to go. And then there’s another portion that thinks that you know they have phenomenal credit to be able to get into a home. So those are a couple of nuances that affect pretty much everybody as a whole as I dig deeper into this. It’s not isolated to just Latinos, it’s actually anybody that is interested in buying and selling a home.
Bob Burns: I find that really, really fascinating about our business, and just about business in general, is when you dig underneath the layers, we’re all pretty much the same. People have the same motivations, the same issues, the same questions, the same desires, and it’s really about individual relationships instead of making broad assumptions about any particular group.
Jorge DeLeon: Right, yes.
Bob Burns: So we’re going to get back into the lending thing that you mentioned in a minute, because I think that’s a really special area of importance that I want to focus on, but what do real-estate brokerage companies, not necessarily individual agents who can communicate on an individual level with their clients, but what do real estate brokerage companies need to do to better serve the Latino market?
Jorge DeLeon: So one of the challenges is how do we reach the audience, how do we reach those clients? And I find that some of the most successful real estate practitioners or professionals have figured out a way to reach out to them. May that be radio, or radio, may that be social media. Believe it or not, the Latino community is very well engaged in social media, so I think it’s a very good avenue to do so, and then also print advertising. Those are the three main ways that I find, which are pretty much the same ways that in general we’re reaching folks.
But it goes back to the messaging. How do I articulate my value proposition as a real estate professional, where it makes sense to a client or a prospective buyer? And our culture wants to look at the path of least resistance, so for example if they come to me, and if I lay all these different reasons why, or not reasons why, but what these objections are getting into homeownership, that person is not going to go to me. They’re going to go to the person that’s going to say, “Yes! We’re ready to help you. We’re going to do everything possible to get you into a home,” and be more enthusiastic about it.
I’ll tell you I personally struggle with that because you’ve met me, I’m pretty straightforward, pretty dry, and it’s like, “Yeah, it can be done” or “No, it can’t be done” versus the enthusiastic real estate professional, the one that can actually articulate their excitement to help someone. And I’m not saying that I’m not excited about helping people, it’s just that the way that it comes out from me is, “Oh this guy is a little too serious,” versus somebody that wants to be fun and wants to make the whole process fun, respecting, dignified and making sure that the client is listened to and that their concerns are covered.
Bob Burns: So it turns out you’re an individual, too, just like me.
Jorge DeLeon: I will tell people, just because it doesn’t look in my face that I’m having fun, I’m having a lot of fun internally, it’s just that I forget to communicate it with my facial expression that I’m having fun in this whole process.
Lending Practices and Language Barriers
Bob Burns: I think that’s why you and I connect so well I’m very much the same way of behind my RBF, I’m having a great time. But let’s talk a little bit more about what you said, because I think there’s an opportunity in there and a vulnerability in what you just talked about in painting a positive, exciting picture. So here’s what I mean by that. The City of Oakland, and now the California Attorney General Xavier Becerra, have both filed lawsuits accusing Wells Fargo of predatory lending practices by steering minority borrowers toward higher risk, higher cost loans. I don’t want to get into the specifics of that case, but I’m curious to hear what your thoughts are on what we as real estate agents can do to help protect our clients from predatory lending practices. And before you answer I want to give you an example of what I see a lot at least in my market in Des Moines, is first-generation or immigrants that speak primarily Spanish trying to navigate a complex legal document in the lending process. They’ll often bring a child or a friend to try to translate this very complex financial instrument into a language they can understand, and I think it can make someone vulnerable to being taken advantage of. Do you see that in your market, and what can we do on the real estate brokerage side to help our clients really understand what it is they’re signing?
Jorge DeLeon: So first of all, I don’t know if I ever shared this, but that was my story. As my mom and dad were buying a house, I became their translator. So I clearly remember when I was 8 years old sitting at the escrow desk and trying to translate this. By that time I was already used to that. I’m grateful that my parents have become accultured and they developed enough linguistic skills to be able to know what they’re signing and ask questions and so forth.
So I’m going to quote a gentleman that, he passed away several years ago, he was very involved in marketing towards Latinos for real estate professionals. And when we had this situation where people were buying homes with unsustainable loans, the question was, “Why did you get that type of loan?” And if they didn’t have money for a down payment and the consumers were saying nobody told me that I had the option of putting a down payment.
So that part of steering that you’re talking about, I’m not going to get into the specifics of that particular situation with Wells Fargo and so forth, but I can tell you that those loans were the ones that generated the best profits to the loan professionals at that time. And it was an easy loan. They refer to them as liar loans. But consumers, they want to know what the difference is between an unsustainable loan and a sustainable loan. They just don’t know how to ask. So they’re not asking that question as a consumer, how can I preserve my ability to keep this home for the rest of my life. Because that’s very typical for Latinos where they’re not buying a home with the intent of staying there for seven years, which would be the average for Americans, or fourteen years which is the new average. They want to be there forever, they see this as that place that they’re going to hand off to their family members in the future.
So I believe that real estate professionals, what we need to do is give the clients the option. So that goes with the concept of giving people the option, informed consent. So if you meet with somebody that wants to buy a home, say okay you can buy the house with 3.5% down with FHA, it’s going to come for the life of the loan with PMI, or if you put 5% down you might be able to get a conventional that will have PMI but it’s going to remove after two years, or if you put 10% down or if you put 15% down, these are your options. Also educating them into what type of financing to get into so they can actually get further ahead much quicker, right?
Unfortunately, when you start talking in those terms, somebody will think that I am making it difficult for them to get into homeownership. So there’s that little balance where, okay you want to buy a house, 3.5% down is going to be the quickest way for you to get in there, but we don’t talk about PMI we don’t talk about impounds, we don’t talk about all those things, so we have to educate ourselves to educate our consumers, and the value of making an informed decision as to what is going to be the best financial way to get into home ownership.
Bob Burns: I think it’s so, so important, when you look across generational wealth in general in the United States, regardless of any demographic trend, the largest single source of generational wealth is home ownership. And putting someone at a disadvantage because of the language they speak, in the ability to pass on generational wealth, I think is something that’s really, really important to everyone, not just real estate professionals, but everyone participating in our economy. And that leads me to my next question.
The National Association of Hispanic Real Estate Professionals (NAHREP)
Bob Burns: The National Association of Hispanic Real Estate Professionals, if you’re not familiar with them folks listening it’s NAHREP.org, has an outstanding project called the Hispanic Wealth Initiative that gets right to this issue. Jorge I know that you’ve been pretty involved with NAHREP in your area. Tell us a little bit more about them and their mission and what they can do for real estate professionals.
Jorge DeLeon: Well I’ve been involved with NAHREP in our local chapter for many years because you can only do so much being involved with the Association of Realtors and so forth. But this wealth initiative was introduced by Gary Acosta a few years ago, and his intent in Jerry Ascensio has been traveling the country also you know introducing this concept to other people. But we found that in order for us to be able to preach about wealth, we have to be able to live it as well. And that was the first layer of the initiative, was to teach Latino real-estate professionals on how to save more and keep more, learn about investing and learning about this whole accumulation of wealth, so we can do a better job of teaching our client base about wealth. So that’s the first layer.
You know there’s individuals in the community that the business community that have Latino background and so forth, and Gary Acosta has been very good about introducing those leaders to fellow real estate professionals. Otherwise we would have we had no idea that Sol was such a prolific businessman or where we have the lady that owns, and I forget her first name, but her last name is Arevelo that owns that mortgage company, also a very powerful business person. I’ve always mentioned that as a community, we don’t have a community figure that represents Latinos in the higher echelons of business, for example. They’re very obscure but when you ask an American to quote somebody that is a business person that they look up to, we’ll use several individuals. Latinos and even with politics you know we’re finally developing that whole process about being able to identify with somebody in politics that is a leader in their country. We’re barely getting there, so I think that Gary Acosta has done a phenomenal job with that.
The other part of the initiative that NAHREP has done is to encourage more Latinos to get into local politics, and to become leaders in the community. That for me has been an inspiration. It’s knowing that I have people behind me that will encourage me if I ever ran for city council, or if I want to become a county supervisor, that I have this group of individuals that would actually keep me accountable for one, but also support me in that whole process.
Bob Burns: Awesome, and I think NAHREP is just a fantastic, fantastic organization, they have chapters in most larger cities at least, so if you’re listening to this, chances are there’s a NAHREP chapter that is there in your city that you could get involved with. You don’t have to be Hispanic to get involved with NAHREP, I was involved with NAHREP for many years, they’re a fantastic organization. I’ve learned so much from participating in what they do, and they’re fantastic.
Pivoting to Management
Bob Burns: But I want to pivot a little bit Jorge if that’s okay, this is a question that I ask almost every real estate manager that I interview, and that is I know you in particular, you ran a pretty successful real estate sales practice, and at some point you decided I want to get into management. Usually management comes with a lot less flexibility and a smaller paycheck than sales, so what was it that attracted you to getting into real estate management, and what would you recommend people thinking about doing that keep in mind?
Jorge DeLeon: So I love the mechanics of a real estate transaction. I’ll give you a little bit more of my background. I started in this business back in 1992 fresh out of high school, I was recruited by a real estate couple that had their own small franchise brokerage in Oxnard. But they did not have the ability of mentoring me so I could understand how to better help a person with a real estate transaction. So I became very infatuated with escrow, because going back to the time that I was an 8 year old kid, where my mom and dad bought a house, I thought this is where the magic happens, in an escrow office.
So somehow I convinced the broker for us to open up an escrow office, I got training as an escrow officer, if there was a PhD for escrow, I think I would be able to get a PhD in escrow, be able to do my thesis together and present it and have a PhD in escrow. That’s why I spent about eleven years as an escrow officer after that. So when my now-wife and I decided that we wanted to start a family, as an escrow officer it was not a good environment for us to start a family, because as an escrow officer, you’re bound by the closing. An eight-hour day is not an eight-hour day for an escrow company, an escrow officer might spend 12 to 14 hours in the escrow office, only visible for 8 hours and the balance behind the scenes, right? So, at that time I decided you know what, in order for me to start a family, I have to have more flexibility, so I became a sales agent at my brokerage. I went to the brokerage that was one of my better clients and I said, hey I want to be a real estate agent. In my first year I closed 24 transactions. My second year I closed another 24 transactions. And I employed everything that I learned as an escrow officer. And then the other thing that I did, I showed up for work, okay.
As a broker manager, it’s my biggest frustration that you open up your office at eight o’clock, and it’s empty for three or four hours, because that’s just the nature of the business. You have to be available for your clients and you know clients are not usually available until after 12:00 noon until 6 o’clock in the afternoon, but the point being – I don’t want to go into a tangent here – but my wife had her first child Oliver, he’s 13 now, and this was in 2006 and 2007. And if we don’t remember what started happening in 2006 and 2007, the real estate market, the whole mortgage implosion started occurring and so forth. So the paycheck was not as reliable as working for a company.
I was blessed enough to be able to accumulate roughly about 26, 27 months of reserves, and I went through all of my reserves, and I had no choice but to go out and find a job, and I found a job with a builder. At that time the company had this inventory of homes, and they partnered me up with this other gentleman who also had a background in real estate sales as an independent contractor, and we were able to get rid of all of their inventory homes in a down market. I think that we did the count, we sold about 305 inventory homes in that period of time, together we were able to take advantage of the of the situation in a positive way. So we were able to put people in homes, sustainable loans, some of these people have actually called us to sell their homes and so forth, but I needed a paycheck, because now I started a family.
Realistically, it is very structured as a manager, so eventually I started as a small company with a partner. That didn’t work out, and then at that time a lady by the name of Jamie Duran came knocking on my door asking if I would consider talking to them about the possibility of being a manager. And I said you know what? Sure, why not, let’s give this a try. So I actually sat down with Jamie Duran not knowing who she was, knowing what the company was, but not necessarily being attracted to the company because at that time I thought this company was not who I wanted to identify with at that time. But when somebody took the time to explain to me what Coldwell Banker was about, and what they did, then I said okay I’m interested in doing this. And they took a risk on me, I’ll tell you that, because I did not have proven management experience at that point. But they gave me this branch that they had to do some structural changes and so forth, and I did not realize that I had something to offer the branch. And we were able to turn it around, and then after two and a half years they gave me another branch to manage.
Now I have three branches with Coldwell Banker, and we were able to bring it down from a hundred and some agents down to about 64, but every single one of my quartiles is actually producing. So we actually have in our area one of the highest per-agent productivity, so we just have productive agents and those that are not producing we try to manage them into producing, but any others… I think I went a tangent, I was promising not to go on a tangent, but I did anyway.
What It Takes to Make It in the Real Estate Business
Bob Burns: It was a really interesting story and I think a story that a lot of people can relate to, so I think it was super valuable. But let’s get back to that per-person and productivity thing, and what you mentioned about showing up for work. You have an advantage as a regional manager, to have a broader view of the industry and what it takes to make it in real estate, whatever that may mean. Have you been able to boil it down to an attribute or a skill or something that you can recognize in an agent to be able to say yes you’re going to make it, keep doing that, or maybe we need to find other career opportunities for you? What does it take to make it as a real estate agent from your point of view?
Jorge DeLeon: Well, I think there’s a lot of pieces to it, but I think I can narrow it down to a couple of things. There is a value of having a manager like myself as an employee. I have to answer to someone, so there’s an accountability, I have a business plan, there’s recruiting goals, there’s productivity goals, so I have somebody hammering down on me what I need to be doing pretty much on a quarterly basis, if not on a monthly basis. So a big portion of my compensation has to do with productivity and meeting certain goals. The difference, and I’m not bashing an independent brokerage, but in many brokerages a broker-manager has to work in order to keep their company afloat. In this particular case, I focus on recruiting the right agent, and then I can focus on helping my agents produce more, because I am not allowed to produce as an employee manager for the broker for my company. So I can focus more directly on how to help our agents do that.
So I have to show up to work and you know start work at 6 o’clock in the morning and I end my work at 6 o’clock in the afternoon, so I work 12-hour days. What does that look like? I’m starting to answer text messages, emails at 6 o’clock in the morning, I take my kids to school, I show up for events like this, you know to be ready to go get on a phone call by 9 o’clock my time, that takes prep time. But now I know that I need to reach out to my agents that have challenges with their transaction, and then I have an opportunity to observe those that are not producing, because I want my agents to produce. I feel the personal responsibility that if somebody is not earning by transaction and escrow, they’re starving, and I can’t live like that. So I’ve approached it with my agents saying you’re not in trouble here, but I’m worried about you. How are you surviving if you’re not putting a transaction together? What do I need to do to help you put a transaction together? Is it you’re not converting people at an open house? Tell me, show me how you are doing this when you are at an open house. How are you having this conversation with someone? I mean, do you understand what your objective is when you’re holding an open house? I ask a lot of questions and I’m pretty straightforward when I ask those questions.
Bob Burns: So a difference that you see is having someone in your corner as an agent who cares about your success as much as you do.
Jorge DeLeon: Yeah, in so many words, and I wish that I would have been able to approach it and package it in the way that you wrote it, but that’s pretty much what it is. I do care for my agents. I think about them. I hold them accountable, because they hired me as a manager broker for accountability purpose, not to throw them a party, make them feel good about themselves, all that stuff. I’m pretty much a hired accountability coach.
Bob Burns: That makes sense. As a hired accountability coach, I can tell you that it works. I see it in all of the agents that I coach that having someone to answer to – even though you’re an independent contractor – works. It works for me, it always has in my career, I’ve always had somebody holding me accountable, whether I was an independent contractor or an employee, and it has worked for the agents that I have held accountable. So, a couple more questions, we’ve been going a long time, but I think this is a super interesting conversation.
Demographic Trends in 2020
Often Jorge, real estate trends start in California and they make their way to the rest of the country. A lot of the folks listening to this are not in California, they’re somewhere east of you, what are some of the things that the listeners should be looking out for over the next 12 to 18 months, that you see already taking place in your market?
Jorge DeLeon: So, boomers. This is the last year, the youngest of the boomers were born 50 years ago, so I believe that the boomer population is going to be one that we need to be paying attention to. So we have to figure out how do they get their information, how do they prefer to be communicated with, how do they want to have a transaction go? Whomever has the ability of connecting with a baby boomer is going to be the most successful for the next ten to twenty years, because there was a study or a report that was published and I was interviewed by the local newspaper as to what the impact is, and after doing some research, we believe that 33% of our transactions in the next ten years are going to have a boomer on one side of it. So who wouldn’t want to have an understanding that 33% of their business is going to be coming from a Boomer? And how do you attract the best share or the highest market share of that demographic. And believe it or not, Latino boomers also make a huge part of that. So one of the people that I follow on Instagram posted a picture, she’s a real estate professional, she posted a picture of her baby boomer parents signing documentation for the closing of escrow on an investment property that they bought. Well those folks are very privileged to have a highly trained professional on their side, and if you if you treat every single one of your clients as if you were taking care of your parents, I think that’s going to make a huge impact. So as far as going back to the trends, I think that that’s going to be the biggest trend. In California we have a pretty much a net zero when it comes to baby boomers moving out of the state. We actually have as many baby boomers coming into the state because of our weather in Ventura County. We have some of the best weather in California, besides that I can literally walk to the beach without living on the beach, and people like that you know? The other thing that I see trending as far as a market in California is we don’t have enough single-story homes. And it’s becoming a problem because again, we have boomers that prefer to live in a single-story home. They don’t necessarily like to live in a multi-level building, apartment building or condominiums, because they still want to be able to have their grandkids come over and visit and play in the back yard. So those are the trends that we’re seeing. In California, we’re not building enough homes because we don’t have enough land that we want to build on, so I believe that we now have sustainable homeownership coming, so we’re not necessarily going to see the big fallout and mortgage defaults and so forth. The only thing that I do see in California is a those homes that were with toxic loans from ten years ago they’re kind of resurfacing again, but not at the same rate as we had ten years ago, or even seven years ago.
Bob Burns: There’s so many opportunities baked into what you just said Jorge, and folks listening now can understand why I wanted to interview you so badly, you’re a really, really smart guy with your finger on the pulse of the market, and I just want to wrap things up by saying thank you so much for sharing your knowledge, your wisdom and your advice to everybody listening to this podcast. Jorge deLeon with Coldwell Banker Residential Brokerage in southern California, thanks for being on How They Won.
Jorge DeLeon: Thank you so much, Bob, it’s good to see you.
Music: “My Everything” by Roads used under license from Tribe of Noise.