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The Board, Balance, & “Boring” Business with Todd Urbanski

December 02, 2019


Todd Urbanski is a successful real estate agent, director of agent development for his company, he’s super involved with the board of Realtors and a former president of the board, a ski patroller, a firefighter…the list goes on and on.

Todd and I discussed the importance of coaching in life and business, how and why to get more involved with your local board of REALTORS®, being part of the solution rather than part of the problem, how to “make it” in the real estate business, balancing multiple competing demands for your time, building a “boring” business – one that’s predictable and sustainable, understanding your “why”, and some of the best advice for real estate professionals that I’ve ever heard.

Todd’s Links

Topics and Timing

Episode Transcript

Start of Interview

Bob Burns: My guest this week is one of those people that makes you want to do more. Not in a way that makes you feel like you’re not doing enough, but in that special, inspirational way that makes you want to see what you’re really capable of.

He’s a successful real estate agent, Director of Agent Development for his company, he’s super involved with the Board of Realtors, the current president of his board in fact, he’s a ski patroller, firefighter, snowmobiler, the list just goes on and on with this guy. So, I’m really, really excited to dig in and figure out what makes him tick.

Todd Urbanski, thanks for finding the time to be on the show today.

Todd Urbanski: Thank you Bob. I appreciate that and what a warm welcome, my gosh that’s pretty special.

Bob Burns: It’s pretty special for me to get to spend some time talking with you and learning even more from you. You and I used to work together, years and years and years ago, and I always respected you, and now is just a great opportunity to bring that whole thing home.

Todd Urbanski: Well thanks, it’s great to see you again. I think you were talking a little bit before the podcast here, off air, and I think it’s been close to 10 years since we’ve seen each other, and both of our paths have diverged a bit and now we’re back together again, so I’m looking forward to this.

The Importance of Coaching in Life and Business

Bob Burns: It’s cool. So first things first, last winter I took my kids skiing for the first time and they really took to it. I don’t know much about it, I’ve skied maybe 4 times in my life, I liked it but I’m not good at it, so what do I need to be doing to help my kids foster a love of skiing while satisfying my wife that none of us are gonna hurt ourselves?

Todd Urbanski: Sure, so you’re a business coach, correct?

Bob Burns: Yes.

Todd Urbanski: And you hire coaches, you believe in coaching?

Bob Burns: Big believer in coaching. If Bill Gates says that he has a coach, and Michael Jordan has a coach, and Tiger Woods has a coach… I have a coach, almost every successful person at whatever it is that they do that I know has a coach.

Todd Urbanski: Absolutely. Get a lesson. Hire an instructor, PSIA instructor, and have them give some lessons. It will save you an enormous amount of time. Beyond that, how old…is it your son? Daughter?

Bob Burns: Two sons, nine and twelve.

Todd Urbanski: Two sons, nine and twelve, they’re both still just kind of freshly learning?

Bob Burns: Yes.

Todd Urbanski: So if they fall and get hurt they blame you if you’re instructing them, you see where I’m going with that?

Bob Burns: So I need a fall guy, or gal.

Todd Urbanski: Exactly.

Getting Involved with The Board of REALTORS®

Bob Burns: I love it. Let’s get into the business side. The first thing I want to talk about is your involvement with the Board of Realtors.

Todd Urbanski: Sure.

Bob: I mentioned before that you’re the president of the Minneapolis Area Association of Realtors. I’m guessing you didn’t just wake up one day with that title, it was a long process to put yourself in a position to do this.

Todd Urbanski: Absolutely.

Bob Burns: Talk a little bit about your journey from just being an agent, or a broker selling real estate, and suddenly now you’re involved in the board side of things.

Todd Urbanski: Sure. Well, I’ve always kind of had a volunteer mindset through the years. I think the first time I can remember volunteering… Let me backup, my uncle Joel was kind of an influence on me, and he volunteered for everything with his church to community events, and everybody knew him, so I always looked at him and I thought, “Boy, the guy’s always got a smile on his face, he’s pretty successful, people like him.” And so I kind of took that out of my childhood and started doing things from there.

When I was in high school, I actually volunteered at a local hospital and became kind of a precursor to an EMT or a first responder, and volunteered at the St. Paul Civic Center for concerts and different home shows and that type of stuff. We did first-aid, basic first-aid type stuff. After getting out of high school, I got involved with a volunteer fire department, which I did for 17 years. I sat on a city council for eight years, a planning commission, economic development authority, and now I’m a volunteer ski patroller beyond my roles with the with the Minneapolis Association of Realtors. And so I’ve always believed in giving back to our communities and our organizations, and when I look at our industry here, we can either sit on the sidelines and complain about a few things, or be concerned about how different facets are being handled, or we can actually be involved with it. And so I just always think, with the benefits that we have, and I’m lucky enough to be in this business now for 20 years actually this month. It’s my birthday, I guess.

Bob Burns: Congratulations.

Todd Urbanski: Thank you. It’s nice to be able to take a few years, give back, and hopefully help the industry a little bit. Keep it strong and keep people moving forward with it.

Being a Part of the Solution, Rather Than the Problem

Bob Burns: Okay I have a ton of questions around what you just said, but the last thing that you mentioned, “you can complain, or you can do something about it,” that was a big lesson for me that I took back from…I think the mutual colleague that you and I had, a woman named Robin Peterson…

Todd Urbanski: Sure.

Bob Burns: …who used to, among many other things, run Coldwell Banker Burnett in the Twin Cities and western Wisconsin. And I remember as a very young, fresh, wet-behind-the-ears agent, I got swept up into the typical grumbling around a real estate office of whining about this, and whining about that, and I found myself in front of Robin, and I was whining about something inconsequential, and she said, “So what are you gonna do about it, Bob?” And that right there, a light bulb went off for me…

Todd Urbanski: Yes.

Bob Burns: …that I want to be a part of the solution, not a part of the problem, and I think that’s so important in in real estate.

How to “Make It” in the Real Estate Business

Todd Urbanski: Okay so actually funny, but I’ve got a Robin Peterson story that’s similar to that also.

Bob Burns: Ha!

Todd Urbanski: So 20 years ago I got my license, and I remember sitting in a training class, and she was doing a session that day and we were working on some project, and she walked up to me and said, “So Todd, if you don’t make it in real estate, what else are you gonna do?” and I looked at her and said, “You know, I don’t have any other options. I have to make this work.” And she looked at me and said, “Well then you’re gonna be fine. You’re gonna be successful in this business.” And as I’ve gone through the years now, I’ve talked to a lot of new agents about that. It’s a question I’ll ask them, and if they have an answer, if they say, “Well if real estate doesn’t work, I think I’ll go back into retail, or I’ll go back into bartending, or I’ll go back into waitressing…” they’re 50% of the way there at that point. Bob you know this business is really hard, and if your mindset isn’t 100% into building the success that you need, in the activities that you need to be doing on a daily basis, if you’re only 50% there, you’ve got a huge roadblock in front of you.

Bob Burns: Oh that makes so much sense. I’ve seen agent after agent come into this business and fall back out of this business, and that’s a brilliant question that you ask, “What’s your backup plan?” And if they don’t have an answer to that, I think that’s a great way to help people realize you’re either all-in, or not, with this business, you can’t be halfway.

Todd Urbanski: It’s truly a coaching moment right there, too, because when you ask the question, if they come up with that answer, you can talk about it then. If they don’t have an answer, you go down the other way and say, “You’re gonna be fine in this business because you’ve committed to it.”

Bob Burns: It’s just brilliant. It’s like the old saying, “If you want your army to take the island, burn all the boats.”

Todd Urbanski: True.

More on The Board of REALTORS®

Bob Burns: So let’s go back to your board involvement, and your path to becoming the president. What was the moment that you decided to take…it’s one thing to volunteer for a committee, or to do a little thing here or there, or to help with the party planning or whatever, you know there’s a lot of things that you can do here at the board. But it’s a whole other level of commitment to say, “No, I’m gonna be the president of this thing, and I can carve out a way to make time for that.” How did you weigh that decision? Because that’s a huge commitment.

Todd Urbanski:  So my initial steps into the board were I believe, I forget the name of the committee I was on, I was volunteering with a pretty minimal, maybe four-meetings-a-year type thing. But one of my mentors in this in this business, Mike Hoffman, whom I think you know also…

Bob Burns: Yeah, Mike is great.

Todd Urbanski: … talked to me, and he at that time was on the board, and he highly recommended that I run for a board seat at that point. So I did, and I won, which was great. Now I had no intention of ever being president. I looked at it as, the board terms are three years, and I thought I could go in there, make a difference, spend three years doing that, and then go back to just full-time sales again. So I stepped on the board, and the first year you’re kind of learning how things work, the second year you’re a little bit more involved, the third year comes up and I’ve got an opportunity to be on the executive committee. And so I did that as treasurer I believe, treasurer my first year on the executive committee, and again you’re kind of learning the ropes for the first six to eight months there. So by the time you’re done with your one-year stint as treasurer, we decided that it would probably be a good idea to have the treasurer do a two-year term at that particular time. So I stepped up and became treasurer for two years in a row, and then you’ve got a very good working knowledge of everything that’s going on at the board, from industry-level to the NAR level, and so then it was just kind of a natural progression from treasurer to president-elect to current president. And then next year I’m really looking forward, because I’ll be immediate past-president which everybody tells me there’s absolutely nothing you have to do other than show up at meetings again. So it’s been, I think after I’m all said and done with this, it’ll be about a seven-year stint that I’ve spent with with MAAR. And it’s been a good seven years, well it’s been a good six years. I’m pretty confident it’ll be a good seven years.

Bob Burns: That’s awesome. So the challenge…There’s a ton of people I think, that want to get involved and make a difference, like we talked about before, you see a problem you can complain or you can do something about it. I think what a lot of people wrestle with, is “What is my commitment on the board side going to…how is it going to affect my business?”

Todd Urbanski: Sure.

Bob Burns: So maybe talk a little bit about what your involvement with the board did for your client base, and for the folks that you interacted with. Do you think there was a net positive to your business from all of that time and effort you invested?

Todd Urbanski: I think what it does for me…So when you’re the president obviously you have a few more responsibilities than if you’re just a board member. And we’ve had a lot of unique challenges over the last couple of years that we’ve worked through, but it’s taken my eye off the ball with my clients and building my business. That said, I fully understand the industry a lot better, I understand the market structure a lot better. The network that I have built across the country, actually internationally, has been hugely beneficial, so I look at this as an investment in my future more so as, “What’s it doing for me today?” Because if I look at it for what it’s doing for my business today, I’m gonna need a bigger box of tissues here.

Building a “Boring” Business

Bob Burns: And isn’t that really what…If you really zoom out of our business, you know when we first get into this business, yeah we’re looking for tomorrow’s deal. But if you’re gonna build a sustainable, predictable real estate career, once you have your immediate needs taken care of by getting some basic lead generation and referrals and a CRM and all the mechanical stuff that we learn about in place, really what the game becomes is, “How can I create long term predictability and sustainability?” And you’ve made a tremendous investment in the long game of your business.

Todd Urbanski: I have. You know, to be successful in this business, I forget who told me this, but you just have to be kind of bored with your business. You know what you’re gonna do almost every day, and it’s just following that process consistently. And consistency is the key with the activities, to spending time learning about your market and everything else that comes with it.

Bob Burns: A good real estate practice is a boring real estate practice.

Todd Urbanski: It can be, yes. Unfortunately, most people don’t believe that, and so they like to put a little bit more drama into it, a little more excitement into it. And eventually they figure it out, that boring is good, boring is okay.

Bob Burns: It’s a much better way to live.

Todd Urbanski: Yes I agree.

Understanding Your “Why”

Bob Burns: I think it is. So if someone is interested in getting more involved in the board, but weighing all of their responsibilities between their sales business and their family and their outside commitments, you’re a guy that has a gigantic list of commitments on you both professionally and personally. What advice would you give somebody that’s thinking about it, but not really sure they can handle it?

Todd Urbanski: Sure. If you’re interested, if you have a passion for anything, you should pursue it. And if you believe you can add value to our industry, to our board, to any local entity really, step up to the plate and volunteer for it. I think a lot of people really want to do it, and if you think hard enough about it you can always find a reason or two not to do it. But then you’re five years older, and then you’re ten years older, and suddenly you realize, “Gosh, I really wish I would have done that.” And so by investing in yourself, the opportunities that open up to you are amazing.

You know by by joining the board I’ve been able to go out to Washington, D.C. four or five times now, and meet with our representatives out there, our Congressional leaders, our House leaders, tour the White House, tour the nation’s capitol. This afternoon I hop on a plane to fly to San Francisco for the National Association of Realtors conference. So the perks are there for it, but also just the huge benefit that you get internally of being able to say, “You know what, I think I made a difference here.”

When I got into this business, real estate, I looked at it as, what’s my “why”? And that’s a hard question to answer sometimes, but for me it’s always been about trying to make somebody else better, make their lives better. And in real estate we get to do that. If you go as simply as helping buyers and sellers, people go home every night and their house, also known as your environment, really dictates the kind of lifestyle that you that you live, and the happiness levels that you have, and the achievements that you dream about, and so we’re able to help people with that on a daily basis. Beyond that, you know beyond my sales career, I get to do that from a board perspective, and in our office here I get to do it from a coaching and training perspective. So don’t tell anybody, but I’m living the life I really want to be living right now.

Bob Burns: Okay we won’t cut that part out of the podcast. So I totally agree with you, and that is exactly in line with my values and the values that I try to coach to, is you know what? Your “why” is most likely not having another digit in your bank account. There’s a lot of ways to make money. And real estate, as you said, is hard. It’s a simple business, but it’s a difficult business. To get out of bed every day, and be told no for a living, and do all the things that we have to do in order to build a sustainable, predictable career. But, if you have that strong “why” of getting to be there for the most pivotal moments in people’s lives, where they’re going to raise their children, or that dream home that they’re downsizing to after raising their family…or even on the other side, the more challenging moments that people have, they just got a divorce or something happened to cause them to need to move to another place, we get to be there to help them. And then you stack on top of that the whole agent and career development side of things, you get to help someone build a career and make a living that can feed their family, feed, house, and clothe their family? What a privilege it is to get to work in this business.

Todd Urbanski: It really is. I’ve hired a lot of agents over the years, coached a lot of agents, trained a lot of agents, and have a lot of agents that are friends right now because of that. You know at the end of the day, I’m giving them all the credit for the careers that they’ve built, but it sure feels good knowing that I was a part of them changing their lives and doing something better with themselves.

Bob Burns: We have similar “whys”. My “why” is to be a small brick in the amazing castle that real estate professionals build for themselves.

Todd Urbanski: That’s a great way of looking at it.

What Todd’s Mentors Have Taught Him

Bob Burns: So I’m always interested in people’s mentors. It’s something that just is really intriguing about about people, and I’m gonna ask you about your mentors in a minute, but we started talking about you as a manager and you as a training professional in real estate. If I asked a lot of realtors, chances are they would mention you as somebody who was pivotal in their career, or reaching their goals. What would some of those people say about you if I ask them?

Todd Urbanski: Hmm, okay. I would think they would say that I’m honest, that I work with a sense of humor. I’m not necessarily afraid to call them out on something. Accountability is huge, you know that, we all know that, we just don’t like to be held accountable. Myself included. That’s why we get into real estate, we don’t like to be told what to do. But I think the agents that I have hired and that have become successful over the years, and then the ones that maybe I didn’t hire, that I just trained or made a difference to all of them would say, hopefully, that I cared more about them than what it would do for the company profit.

I’ve always believed that if you can show somebody the confidence that they need to have in this business, the confidence that we all need to have in life, and in real estate…we get kicked in the gut numerous times a day sometimes. And sometimes it’s like literally a 2×4 upside the head, but we have to get back up from it and we can’t be down for the next phone call, we can’t be down for the next appointment that we’re going on. We always have to be kind of front and center on the stage that way. And so I’m hoping that through my history that I’ve been able to help people show that even when you do have those down moments, you can still be up. And what we do makes a difference in a lot of people’s lives.

Bob Burns: That is so empowering. And I’ve had many people help show me that that’s what this business is really all about, is the the people side, the relationship side, and it’s not about the quick commission check. It’s about doing all the right things all the time. Who have some, I mean you mentioned Mike Hoffman before, who have been some of your mentors, and what are the biggest lessons that you’ve taken from?

Todd Urbanski: So Mike Hoffman, I call him my mensch. We laugh with each other that way.

Bob Burns: And he is a mensch.

Todd Urbanski: He is, absolutely. So him and I, when I first started, when I got out of sales the first time…this would have been back in about 2005, going into branch management, I had to shadow somebody. Mike Hoffman was the guy that I chose to shadow. I had met him at a course he was teaching called Integrity Selling, and it really kind of stood out as something that kind of touched me a little bit. And he was a great instructor, so when it came time to choose somebody to shadow for a day as a manager, I chose him. Now you have to understand that I’m about six-three and Mike’s about…mmm…let’s just say five-two, and that might be kind, and if you listen to this Mike, you you can slap me upside the head at some point in the future here. But regardless, he just showed me that you know with our company at that time, we had 26 offices or so, and all 26 offices tried to stay together and kind of do the same thing. And the office that I managed was more of a rural office about 40 miles west of downtown Minneapolis-St. Paul. So our market was a little bit different, our agents were a little bit different, and so we had to do things a little bit differently that way. And he was the guy that told me, “You know, difference is okay as long as you’re successful with it, and chase your passions and follow your dreams and make a difference in people’s lives.” And so that’s really what I learned from him that way.

I had another mentor, too, in the name of Gary Malick. And Gary, you’re familiar with Rich Dad Poor Dad, and so Gary Malick was my “Rich Dad”. And he, from an early day back in high school probably, he was the guy that always lived below his means. That’s kind of funny, because he lives in a beautiful, beautiful home up on Bay Lake up by Garrison right now, and it’s a gorgeous lifestyle that he has. And so I’m still trying to emulate him. He was always living below his means, but investing all the time, and trying to constantly be a student, and reading, and seminars, and back in the day when everybody had magazines, he always had Money magazines and Forbes magazines there. And I would just pick those up and kind of devour them a little bit. In fact, to this day, I still go on an annual fishing trip with him and his son. This last fall we were getting ready to go, and I woke up at about 4 o’clock in the morning at his house, and there he is in front of his computer with his headphones on still studying the market. So you have that passion, you have that determination, and again we talked, it’s the things that you do consistently, and he does it consistently every day, and he’s well past the retirement age right now, but it hasn’t slowed him down one bit.

Bob Burns: I think that’s really neat, that, how does the saying go? “You’ll never work a day in your life if you love what you do.”

Todd Urbanski: Absolutely.

Bob Burns: And it sounds like Gary absolutely loved what he did, because he did it whether he needed to or not, he was a student of the things that he cared about.

Todd Urbanski: He did it very, very well and he retired at the age of 54, so there’s goals there for ya.

Bob Burns: That’s pretty impressive. So in our preparation, pivoting a little bit, you shared a story about a newlywed couple that couldn’t quite find the right home to purchase, and I mean I teach a lot of different lead generation methods, but the story that you shared is a new one that is going in my in my quiver that I might share in some of my classes. Tell us that story.

Todd Urbanski: So this is a good story. So I was working with a first-time homebuyer couple that, newly married, and you know they were looking for something specific, and they really wanted a wide open floor plan, great room, three bedrooms, two baths, preferred an unfinished basement, nice lot. And so I showed them probably 15, 20 homes or so. And every home we would go in, there was something that they liked, but there was always one thing that they didn’t like. And I’d always ask ‘em, “What is it that you don’t like about this house?” and it would be this or it’d be that or it’d be the size of the bedroom. And so every time that they explained what they didn’t like, and what they did like, I just took a mental note and at the end of the evening what I realized, what they really wanted, was the house that I was currently living in. And my wife and I had talked a little bit about potentially selling, but we weren’t anywhere near making that final decision yet.

Regardless, after the showings I called my wife up, and I said, “You know, I’ve got a couple of clients here that I would love to show them our house, would be open to that?” And of course it’s not 100 percent picked up, or super neat, and I kind of forewarned the clients on that, and my wife being the sweetheart that she is, said, “Yeah, well, bring ‘em by.” And so, brought ‘em over to the house, walked them through, walked through the main floor. They walked in the front door and I looked at their eyes and I just knew, okay, this is the right house for them. They walked through the great room, they walked through the kitchen, looked at the unfinished basement, checked out the bedrooms upstairs, loved the size of those, and that night we sat down at our kitchen table and wrote an offer to sell our own house. So I think we put the closing date out about 90 days or so, so that we could find something to move into, but you talk about a full-service real estate agent? You can’t find the right house, and you’re willing to sell your own house to your clients?

Bob Burns: There you go, your family is all-in on this. To bring it full-circle back to what we were talking about before, you’re either all-in or not. So my follow-up question to that story, Todd, is the house that you moved into, so you sold the house that you were living in, I’m wondering, is the house that you bought a listing that you had?

Todd Urbanski: No, I’m not that good. So that would have been about 2006, just before the market started to turn on us, and of course we built a bigger, nicer house in the neighborhood, and held on to it for about eight years, and then took a little bit of a bath on that one. So even the pros don’t get it right every time.

Bob Burns: Well, you know the thing about real estate, and this is kind of getting us off topic, but we can talk more about this maybe next time we get together, is it’s not a stock certificate. You can’t live in a stock certificate, and there are other reasons to buy a home or to build a home than a financial return on investment.

Todd Urbanski: Absolutely. I tell people that all the time, that your primary residence, while it is somewhat of an investment, you can’t look at as an investment. You have to live somewhere. That is your house. At the end of the day hopefully you do well on it, but let’s not plan on that, let’s look at other things to build your investments that way.

Some of the BEST Advice to Real Estate Professionals I’ve Ever Heard

Bob Burns: We’ll talk more on that later. I wanted to wrap up our conversation with Todd Urbanski, but Todd if you could give everyone listening a single piece of advice right now, maybe it’s about the market, maybe it’s about prospecting, maybe it’s about getting involved, maybe it’s about how to build their business. If you had to boil it all down to the most important thing for folks listening to this conversation what would you say?

Todd Urbanski: Stop listening to the noise. We hear a lot of talk about recession, we hear talk about disruptors, we hear talk about bubbles. In reality, we’ve always heard that talk. There’s always going to be different business models coming into our industry. There’s always challenges. My belief is, around the recession talk right now, we’ve had it pretty good for a long time right now. And as a society we sometimes feel like, if we’ve had it too good for too long, then something bad must be happening. Australia used to have a recession every ten years, pretty much on the dot, except it’s been 20 years since they had their last one. And so if we all focus on is the idea that we’re going to go into a recession, then naturally we stop buying things a little bit, we start slowing down our spending, which causes…

Bob Burns: It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Todd Urbanski: …a self-fulfilling prophecy that way. So my recommendation is, forget about the noise, show up, get up early, start your day early, do the things consistently that you need to do, whether it’s in the real estate industry or whatever industry you’re in, and be successful with it. Be happy with it, and if you’re not happy, make some changes till you get happy. Life is short.

Bob Burns: I think that’s awesome advice, and just to back up what you were saying with a little bit of data as we wrap up, I did a little bit of a data study a handful of years ago. I started looking at the Real Trend 500 list, year in, year out, and what I discovered is if you break down those 500 individuals, the 500 most successful real estate professionals across the United States, something like, I can’t remember the percentage I came up with, but the vast majority of them, like well over 50 percent of them, began their career in what was defined as a recession. So the cream rises to the top, some of the most successful people I know have become that way by figuring out how to make this work in a recession. And here’s the cool thing, if you master this business in a recession, then the rest is easy.

Todd Urbanski: Absolutely. If you made it through the last recession in real estate, you’re gonna be a rockstar for the duration of your career that way. I’ve heard a stat somewhere, and I don’t know if it’s accurate or not, but that 90% of the realtors in the industry right now have only been in the business five years or less.

Bob Burns: Wow.

Todd Urbanski: Yeah, and so it’ll be interesting to see when our market starts to change a little bit, how that’s gonna affect the number of realtors we have. I think we’re at 1.4 million realtors across the country right now, expected to move up to 1.5 million, and you know in our local market here, between Minneapolis and St. Paul we’re at about twenty-two, twenty-three thousand realtors here. That means about, well, every person out there knows about 12 realtors if you do the math on it.

Bob Burns: That’s incredible and there’s tons of opportunity in those numbers, and again that’s something that we can discuss another time, maybe I’ll put a blog post up, or maybe Todd wants to write a guest blog post on the website.

Todd Urbanski: Now you’re baiting me, huh?

Bob Burns: Well, I’m recording this, so it’s going to work out. But anyways Todd, I want to really, really thank you for taking the time to sit down with me this morning, and chat about your business and your beliefs and your involvement. You’re a super busy guy, you’re about to get on a plane, and you’ve got a million other balls in the air, so spending this time with us is really, really special to me and for our listeners, too. So thank you for everything that you shared, and I look forward to catching you around the internet.

Todd Urbanski: Well thanks for inviting me, I really enjoyed this, it was great to catch up with you again. It’s interesting how our paths cross after so many years, and how sometimes you don’t think of somebody and all of a sudden you’re connected again at the hip, so I really appreciate the time here.

Bob Burns: That’s awesome. Have a great day.

Todd Urbanski: Thanks, Bob.

Music: “My Everything” by Roads used under license from Tribe of Noise.

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